CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!!
Here is the BOTTOM LINE. You guys listening? VOLKSWAGONS ARE PERFORMACE CARS. BMW’s, Mercedes, Audi’s, Porches, ALL COST ALOT OF MONEY TO MAINTAIN. VW’s are EUROPEAN cars that require EUROPEAN parts that are usually expensive. Maybe if all of you had bought a car that you could afford to maintain, you wouldn’t have had such a negative experience. GO BUY A CHEVY MALIBU IF YOU WANT A RELIABLE, SLOW, BORING CAR.
For the money, VW’s are an excellent choice as compared to buying a 5 series BMW (35-40k$). And you know what? They’re a hell of alot faster. GET OVER THE FACT THAT YOU BOUGHT YOUR VOLKSWAGON BECAUSE YOU FELL IN LOVE WITH THE TRENDY, CUTE COMMERICALS, RATHER OF RESEARCHING YOUR PURCHASE. Thank you, that is all.
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297 Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – You, sir, are an ass.
I spend all this time as a pro-VW consumer trying to provide useful information concerning their issues and you go and make stupid, silly remark s with little or no basis in truth that all but destroys a lot of the goodwill I feel was beginning to creep in to the site.
FormerVWOAEMPLOYEE Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Okay first of all a VW is not a performance car. It a GERMAN CAVALIER if you want to get technical. You VW owners act like your driving a Mercedes or Aston Martin. Typical VW owner calling Customer Relations..
http://www.whittenfarm.com/Photos/Touareg/SirPeterNewCar.WAV
PassatVR6 Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – The VR6 is a 175 horsepower dual over head cam. it goes from 1-60 in 7.5 seconds. Nearly a whole second faster then the 179 horsepower 2.1L straight 6 BMW 328i, a 35,000 dollar car, no options. I RACE CARS. I KNOW HOW THEY PERFORM. I have met many a chump who thought that they could beat me in those steel luxory-slugs. VW’s are AUDI’s which are PERFORMANCE CARS. I own an RS6, I should know. So piss off.
297 Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Depends on what VW you get, doesn’t it?
The GTI is the original pocket racer, regardless of how Japanese imports have dominated the scene in the last decade. It’s known to be a racer, along with the Scirocco.
The VW Corrado was considered a sporty/luxury car (indeed, I would love to own one as a fixer-upper one day).
The 1.8T engine block is known to withstand 400hp and has thus attracted car enthusiasts willing to do slight modifications that can put the car at 220hp or even 280hp.
The BMW is not a performance car. It is a luxury car. The M5 is a performance car.
Porsche Boxsters can easily be beaten by a slightly modified GTI/Jetta/New Beetle (any 1.8T, really), but the Boxster S is a different story.
A car manufacturer builds many types of cars. VW carries the Polo and the Lupo in Europe, which are certainly NOT performance vehicles in stock form, but the GTI most definitely is, coming stock at 180hp, with the R32 model providing is a 240hp all-wheel-drive luxury performance car.
For an ex-VW employee, your knowledge is laughable.
297 Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Audis are not performance cars. They are luxury cars, of which certain models, such as the S4 and RS6, are performance cars.
VWs are not Audis. They share common parts, and some share common platforms, and here you may find enough similarities to say that if it’s an Audi performance vehicle it is therefore a VW performance vehicle. Case in point, the Audi TT, which is a MkIV platform car sharing virtually all the same engine parts as the GTI/Jetta/Golf/New Beetle, although the TT225 does sport a larger turbocharger and a strengthened engine block with two intercoolers.
The Passat, in all truth, should be called a VW anyhow. It’s an Audi B5/5.5 platform, and the luxury model it has become since 2000 pretty much makes it a luxury car… something VW seems to want to do (and step all over their Audi line) yet ought to concentrate on expanding the econoline here in the US.
297 Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – My last paragraph meant to say a Passat shouldn’t be a VW, not should.
Morgan Said,
June 29, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Well, I think Paul summed it up nicely. As a previous owner of a “New” Jetta and now the current owner of a Passat. I would have to agree.
dgarcia Said,
July 2, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – To the former VW employee, we have the to right to complain when the product you sold us is inferior. For your information, people who buy Benz or BMW or any other luxury brand, would not put up with the nonsense we’ve experienced. Also, I’m convinced had I bought a Cavalier, it would not have been back to the dealer 6 TIMES IN 11 MONTHS!!!!!!
John Doe Said,
July 3, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Right on PassatVR6. A german cavalier is an oxymoron, they don’t manufacture crap like cavaliers in Germany.
ZX1100F1 Said,
July 15, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – What does “”VOLKSWAGONS ARE PERFORMACE CARS”" have to do with anything???
Does that mean that the windows should fall into the doors? And that you shouldn’t be able to get your auto trans out of park becuse some stupid brake switch was built poorly? Or that the MAF sensor should go out in 20K miles along with the rear brake pads?
I don’t get it Mario!
How many races do you win in your VW? Funny I must have missed these on ESPN over the weekend.
There are plenty of cars out there that will suck the moldings off the doors of these VW’s but not leave you stranded every other day.
Firewall Said,
August 10, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I want anyone that owns a new VW and complains about it and says its a german cavvy to go down to a GM dealer and sit in a Cavalier. You will quickly learn to shut your mouth and to not compare these cars to a econobox such as this.
sean cafrter Said,
August 27, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Bless you and all tha utha hatas out there and im out biatch (childish rant edited by Rick)
april Said,
September 15, 2004 @ 12:00 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – vw’s have great performance,solid handling, and precise German engineering plus there hot and fun as hell to drive. dont talk shit till ya experinace the real thing.
zany Said,
October 14, 2004 @ 9:40 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – my mother has a mercedes same year as my beetle she loves it has never had a problem out of the car. yes maybe volkswagons are supposed to be performance cars but come on not all of them are. it is great that you love your car, but for those of us who have had some bad luck with ours let us share it. i did not buy my car because it was cute or trendy i bought it because i am a full time student and drive a lot, i needed reliable and good on gas. i got the good on gas but not the reliable part.
3dubs Said,
October 15, 2004 @ 6:19 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Zany,
The difference between your mothers car and yours is that she probably takes her car in for routine maintenance. Just and hunch, but from reading your other post, your poor Beetle sounds like a neglected car.
YupOldBull Said,
October 15, 2004 @ 7:20 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – My 2000 Jetta has been an “”excellent choice”". It is really a “”performance car”". I have had over 20 trips back to the dealership and $12,000 in repair bills in 48 months.
The cost of the repairs, lawyers, and compensation, is almost equal to the purchase price of the car. ($20,000) You do the math. Isn? that like paying for 2 cars and getting 1 broken one?
I won? bad mouth. I will just list the facts.
Here is the history on my 2000 Jetta to date. 93k (September 99 to September 04)
Air conditioning leak (after 1 week)
Rear defroster has two strands that don? work (after 3 months)
Cloth Front Floor Mats ripped out (3 times)
Replaced cloth mats with heavy duty VW rubber mats
Check engine light came on (4 times) (Coil pack failures?)
(2nd time engine light came on VW Dealership told me it would cost $100 to ?cope?
Rear brake pads wore out at 40k (front pads showed no wear?)
Rear rotors ?cored?by premature pad failure.
Gear shift knob loose
2.0 litre engine burning oil (1 quart every 1,000 miles)
2.0 litre engine cylinder walls deglazed and new rings installed (didn? work)
Replaced Mass Air Flow sensor
Drivers Door ?nterior armrest?(cosmetics) showing poor wear patterns
Glove box hinge broke (3 times) Still broken.
Replaced Clutch (should /could go to 150k?replaced at 93k)
Seat belt recall from VW
Brake light pedal switch recall from VW
Numerous calls to the VW #800 line (No help)
Replaced Coolant flange on engine (told these are known to break)
Sunroof broke
Warranty extension from VW on oxygen sensors
Replaced spark plug wires
Broken armrest hinge (plastic)
Mystery rear window (Comes down 6?on its own)
Replaced engine vacuum hoses
Letter to Dealership, they get VWOA involved, both ?ombined?offer ?o help?Front of plastic cup holder ?alls off?Front windows crashed down inside of door (4 times)
2.0 litre engine burning 1 quart every 2,000 miles (over 45 quarts in 93k)
2.0 litre engine completely replaced
Temperature gauge sensor replaced (silent VW recall item)
Received Mass Air Flow sensor ?arranty extension?from VW
Car wouldn? pass State inspection (replaced 2 oxygen sensors $360)
Received window regulator litigation notice
Dash light failure (works ?k?for 2 weeks and then ?ff?for 2 weeks)
Intermittent trunk light
Compensated by VW for oxygen sensors
Need to replace rear pads again 90k (second time)?.front pads are still Ok. (?)
Over 20 trips to the dealership in 48 months.
I want a Chevy Malibu. (Slow and Boring)
Ronster Said,
October 15, 2004 @ 8:57 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – .
Ronster Said,
October 16, 2004 @ 12:40 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – .
jasenm Said,
October 19, 2004 @ 6:09 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – actually toyota makes the caviler in europe. lol. its true.
RatFreak Said,
October 20, 2004 @ 5:37 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I have to agree with John Doe [""A german cavalier is an oxymoron, they don't manufacture crap like cavaliers in Germany"".].
I own a 2002 Golf now and I was forced to drive a Cavalier for 3 long days when my old car crapped out. The Cavalier is not a car but a joke. A 20 year old Golf in shitty shape is 50 times better than a brand new Cavalier.
Also, Germany doesn’t produce shit like Asia and America does.
There is nothing wrong with VWs. The same thing happens with other makes of cars and everything else you buy. One person may be lucky and get one that has no problems and another can end up with one that breaks every week.
eg.: I hate Sony because I’ve had probelms with every one of the 8 Sony items I owned. Never again will I buy one. Other people have never had issues with Sony.
ZX1100F1 Said,
October 20, 2004 @ 7:01 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Well at least my kids Cavalier hasn’t broke down in 90K+ long hard miles and it cost $11,500 less than my TDI when all was said and done and will beat the pants off my Jetta in a race to boot, “”VW’s are performance cars”", yeah right!
The back seat in the Cavalier is usable too, not that I like the car much but it does have its value.
Volkswagen’s are not the cars that they once were nor is the company.
Beck Said,
October 20, 2004 @ 8:08 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Everyone please read RatFreaks post very carefully.
“”nothing wrong with VW”"….”"Germany does not produce crap like Asia and the US”"………..
After reading this, you’ll all know where some of these Volksyugo forever”" guys are really coming from. (Twilight Zone music Please!)”"
daniele Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 1:20 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – paul, i directed my comments at those three people because they come onto a site for people who have issues with VW (hence the title of the website) and just made stupid comments to upset already frustrated VW owners. Although I greatly appreciate your suggestion to take my car to Timmons, the problem is that I am a law student with no free time on my hands. That is one of the reasons why I’m forced to stay in Orange County and try to deal with issues under my powertrain warranty with the terrible dealers here. Furthermore, Timmons probably won’t even service my car because of the VIN situation I’ve mentioned before. I have a great mechanic in Anaheim who has worked on VWs for 26 years and told me that “they are great for business.” I need a car that doesn’t need to go into the shop once a month for various repairs. I bought a VW because I had heard good things. My mom used to have a Vanagon and loved it. Unfortunately, I was mistaken and bought a Jetta that has been nothing but trouble. I thought I was buying a reliable car for about $20,000 and that didn’t happen. Instead, I got a nice looking car with a ton of problems. So congrats that your VW hasn’t given you many problems…you are one of the lucky ones.
Beck Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 1:37 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – My experience with those “”other”" brands is not called blind assumption Paul, But (drum roll)”"TRUE TO LIFE OWNERSHIP and SATISFACTION THROUGH CONTINUOUS RELIABLE SERVICE!!!”" Not some TSB that you read out there!
Now who’s really doing the assumptions here! HAH! and a thousand more Fartfernugens! for you “”blind”" Volksyugo fans!
297 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 1:50 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – daniele, I don’t think Timmons is as far from you as you believe it to be (it’s a 25 minute drive from West LA), but I can understand the pressures on your time.
beck, I have no idea what you’re talking about now. If you’re trying to claim your personal experience trumps a TSB list, then I’ll just put my experience up against yours and just cancel it out. Otherwise, try saying something productive instead of repeated cries of Volksyugo without the least bit of useful discussion.
Beck Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 2:16 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Frankly, it just really ticks me off when people constantly defend such a flawed product and just not admit to themselves and the public that there is a problem with errrrm..Volkswagen, the Company! (there I said it, but it was painful!).
This constant bias and velvet glove handling constantly forwarded by Volksyugo diehard fans by spinning them into help tips to posters just constantly insult our intelligence and just adds to the pain and frustration that we constantly get from owning these peices of junk.
And that rant I will end with a Fartfernugen to Volksyugo!
jasenm Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 3:50 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – i dont know what to think about this thread. its actually surprising that there is so much heated debate and im not even a part of it. i kinda feel left out, so let me just say that beck, you are a turdburger. and passatvr6, you are right with alot of what you say, but you may be in need of a reality check with your racing analogys. while it is true that a vw holds the land speed record, our cars are generally underhorsepowered and torqued. example, a passat v6 is only 190 hp. a dodge intrepid starts at 201 hp in a $23,000 se model. a chevy malibu v6 is 205 hp with the 3100 engine. altima blows us away. so i dont get it. a mitsu lancer (base) gets over 30 hp more than our 115 hp golf/beetle/jetta gl’s get. even out r32 cant outmuscle an evo or wrx sti, though it does top the neon srt4 sentra spec v r and that joke of a svt focus. bottom line is we can corner better, but in a straight line race you are usually not top dog. however that comment about a cavy beating a tdi jetta, lol, no kidding that 90 hp we got is gonna get picked up by nascar. anyeay passatvr6, if people reaserch their cars they would be likely to buy a vw rather than not buy. that was a foolish bit of banter. did i mention beck is an assclown? also alot of cursing on this thread.
jasenm Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 3:55 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – oh yeah, the sean carfter, hes a foolish white kid pretending to be rapper jay-z. only jay-z is sean carter, not caftre, you terd. just thought i would enlighted you folks who didnt get his pathetic attempt to have fun….and on that note, i give shots out to my homies in wolfsburg, holdin it down and big pimpin!!!!
ps i just lost a deal to a caddilac cts. i should end it. over rated!!!!!
ZX1100F1 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 4:48 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – jasonm, Wow! A Chevy Malibu has a 205 Hp 3100 V6???
You may want to check your facts again schlong taster! It’s no wonder you’re a 2-bit loser car salesman.
You also failed to mention that the TDI 1.9 has a serious torque advantage over the 2001 Cavalier 2.2
You just continue to prove your worthlessness with every post (good job idiot).
Now why is it that an abused Cavalier never breaks down and a babied Jetta constantly does, huh there smart guy?
Beck Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 4:58 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Hey Jasenm,
At least an A55clown is much higher up the evolutionary pyramid than a Volksyugo lover/salesperson . The three types of people universally considered as sleazy and untrustworthy, politicians, lawyers and yes, car salesmen. Society’s lowest life forms!
daniele Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 5:24 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Beck, I had agreed with you up until this point. If you had read my previous post, you would see that I’m a law student and I’m definitely not sleazy. I visit this website because I’m pissed off that my car sucks and VW doesn’t care. I’ve never had an issue with the salesmen. They’re only doing their jobs by selling the car. My problem is with the service people who are incompetent and the people at VW of North America who give you the run around. There is no need for name calling.
Beck Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 5:35 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – My apologies to everyone on my last message, specially to any lawyers, politicians and slaespeople. I just got all wound up again by all the Volksyugo irritation spinning in this site. I retract all that personal criticism and insult that I had written. I WAS being an A55clown today. But no apologies ever to Volksyugo till they admit to their faults and help out all the owners who feel cheated and neglected by their company!!! We have better things than personal insults to do in this site. (Sorry Rick)
297 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 6:05 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I don’t spin diddly. You won’t find me defending VWs maintenance record versus Honda and Toyota… but I’m not going to say those two brands are flawless either, just as VWs are not the rustbuckets that deserve such derision.
I also state that there are bad dealers as well as good dealers, and while I would rather there were more good dealers than bad, it typically falls the other way. Hence, my insistence on checking sites like 1.8t.org to find a well-rated dealer.
YupOldBull Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 6:50 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – You keep saying go find a better VW dealership. (?)
My problem was 90% car and 10% dealer.
2000 GLS Jetta 2.0 Litre ($12,000 in repairs in 48 months!) Over 20 trips to the repair shop!
If the car had been better designed and built, I wouldnt have had to deal with the VW Dealership! I need a better car, not a better dealership! It has been a terrible car!
It is not a rust bucket but it does have excessive recurring repairs every other month. It is an unreliable vehicle. I am not alone with this opinion. The dealerships have reaped a bonanza of revenue because of this! Some of which is my hard earned money!
Maybe some young law student, that is a disenchanted Jetta owner, will help us get a class- action lawsuit started.
Beck Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 8:04 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Well said!
We would think that if Volksyugo would only try to really improve the design and materials quality of their cars, the “”bad dealer”" problem that Paul always brings up could most possibly go away, because you will have cars that will remain fixed after the dealer fixes them. Problem is, with Volksyugo, you get something fixed that trips off the CEL light, for example, and the damn thing goes on again a few miles or days later.
And with cars that don’t keep coming back beacuse of problems caused by bad design from Volksyugo, you will have happier and less frustrated mechanics that will perform better, cause they can appreciate the good quality Engineering that they will have to deal with. This is the solution and this will make everyone happier in the long run, from the Volksyugo line worker, all the way down to the car buyer. Will Volksyugo ever figure this simple piece of logic once and for all, and finally act on it with full commitment?, or will they just keep making enemies out of a lot of their customers from year to year?!
daniele Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 10:39 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – It’s really only a matter of time until the VWs belonging to PassatVR6, April and Ratfreak start falling apart like the rest of our cars did. We’ll see a quick change of tune once the repair bills start adding up, things start breaking, the car doesn’t run like it should, and they get to deal with the “smart” people at VW. I think the only reason these people post pro-VW comments is because they read all of our comments and are afraid that they too bought a crappy car. They’re just trying to convince themselves that the car in their driveway isn’t a piece of crap. Too bad it is…and their cars will soon fall apart. It is inevitable, it is VW.
297 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 11:22 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – yupoldbull, recurring problems mean the dealer doesn’t fix them properly. A good dealer fixes the problem, period, and you stop going back every month. That’s why I said go to a dealership with a good rep.
As for CELs always coming on… my CEL never turned on for over two years, and finally did when I fully expected it to: when I increased the flow in my exhaust caused the O2 sensor voltage to jump.
jasenm Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 11:49 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – toyota caviler….check it out!
http://www.auto.vl.ru/catalog/toyota/cavalier/1999_11/photo/6233/
how do i attach a pic here? i dont see a link….
jasenm Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 11:52 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – zx…. stop racing a z24 manual trans against a reg 2.0 jetta….would a cavy ls beat a 1.8t….no! so stop being silly. and why are you drag racing with your kids on public streets anyway. real classy.
297 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 12:20 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – daniele, I’m sorry your experience with your VW is bad, but you’re sadly mistaken about those of us who like our own VWs changing our tune if things go wrong.
My car is on its fourth year and the only things that have gone wrong are things I did to it (currently, I made a fool move and dropped a metal screw into the 12V outlet, which has apparently caused a short and now the outlet is dead). The only problems I’ve had that were not my fault was a premature low-beam bulb death and a plastic switch breaking on the 10th day of ownership, both repaired and now trouble-free.
I realize that half of you out there take good care of your cars and know how to drive a stick and STILL suffer problems. VW has had problems, and to be honest, if you wanted a trouble-free car you should have bought Honda or Toyota (though they are not as trouble-free as you may think, they are moreso than VW). But I purchased a VW because I wanted to sporty car with a nice interior. Driving one makes me smile. I knew about certain problems and watched out for them, sometimes preemptively replacing a possible defective part before it failed (ex: my coilpacks were fine, but the dealer replaced them for free at my request). I kept to the maintenance and switched to synthetic oil. I made sure I only put in 91 octane fuel for my turbocharged engine. Etc. etc. etc.
Now while I’m sure half of you did exactly as I did and still suffered problems, I am equally sure half of you on this board abused your vehicles. I refrain from naming who but it’s certainly obvious from the posts they make citing their problems that they never bothered to follow the maintenance schedule.
For that half, I have only pity. For the half that made the effort and still have lemons, I feel sorry and I try my best to provide solutions that in the end, will either result in your selling the vehicle or making it well again, and in so doing, begin to enjoy driving it again.
But daniele, you are completely and totally wrong about me regretting my car. I regret you owning yours, and I still urge you to take the car to Timmons VW in Long Beach. They’re the best in our area.
Beck Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 12:38 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Paul,
I can hear those tiny violins playing too!, We must be floating in Fartfernugen land today!;^) Love the “”moreso troublesome than Volksyugo”" statement you squeezed in there about Hondas and Toyotas!”" (being a past owner of multiple examples of those brands, I’m afraid to tell you that you are just totally wrong on that one!) Next thing you know you will try to convince us that there are WMDs in Iraq! Hah!
297 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 12:54 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – For beck, I have no pity. He’s gone off the deep end, pretending that VW is the evil of the world, ranting about Volksyugos plotting to destroy his life.
No, really, what’s your problem? You’re as blind in your belief and extremist in your convictions as people who insist there were WMDs.
297 Said,
October 21, 2004 @ 12:56 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – As for Toyotas and Hondas, did you even bother to check the TSB list for those cars in a previous thread? Or are you still on this blind assumption kick?
YupOldBull Said,
October 22, 2004 @ 5:37 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Paul
Wrong. Unacceptable. I will say again. The car is bad!
It is not a good thing to have 2 recalls and 76 TSBs issued on your 2000 GLS!
That is like being told that it is Ok, we have fixes for all the problems with your defective pacemaker!
I have had problems with 30 different items. Some of them multiple times!
I paid my $20,000 and I got a vehicle full of poorly designed parts and systems!
I vote with my dollars, and I have been shortchanged! (scroll up and look at the list of problems again) And then to compound the issue they didnt make it right with me, so I had to hire a lawyer. (which they paid for!)
In the shop every other month for repairs is unacceptable. $12,000 in repairs in 48 months is unacceptable. You mentioned CEL problems. VWOA wouldnt help me after the 3rd time and my dealer insisted on charging me $100 to scope. That is no help.
My entire engine was replaced. 2.0 litre oil burner! Sound familiar? Dealerships fault?
5 repairs on window regulators is unacceptable. The dealer was installing replacement window regulators made with cheap plastic tabs. Thats not the dealers fault! That is a design flaw from VW! They kept breaking off and then the window would crash into the door cavity!
The window regulator class action suit alleges that the plastic window clips were used from 1995 to present. I had my problems mostly in 2001 and 2002! Do we have to start litigation on each item to alleviate recurring expenses caused by poor design or assembly? Why would it go for years without a fix? Sales revenue for VW and the parts department? Does the state Attorneys General know about it? What about the bad items without litigation? Do they only have to pay on the items that they get caught on? (litigated)
http://www.bigclassaction.com/class_action/complaint_form_vw.html
If you ask me the only way to get action (outside of litigation) is to involve an agency with a safety concern. Sadly, it seems to be the only two ways that VW responds.
297 Said,
October 22, 2004 @ 5:58 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – 2000 Honda Civic EX Sedan: 2 silent recalls, 50 TSBs
2000 Honda S2000: 2 silent recalls, 1 general recall, 47 TSBs
2000 Honda Accord DX Sedan: 3 silent recalls, 2 general recalls, 56 TSBs
2000 Toyota Camry LE Sedan: 48-51 TSBs
2000 Toyota Celica GT-S: 59 TSBs
2000 Ford Mustang GT: 3 silent recalls, 52 TSBs
2000 Ford Taurus: 5 silent recalls, 2 general recalls, 48 TSBs
2000 VW Jetta 1.8T: 48 TSBs
2000 VW Jetta 2.0: 2 general recalls, 74 TSBs
The winner is the 2000 VW Jetta 1.8T. The worst is a Ford Taurus. The rest are sort of in the middle, with your Jetta 2.0 with numerous TSBs a bit on the worse side.
My car? 1 silent recall, 48 TSBs (my coilpacks were not part of the batch but they decided to err on the side of caution and replaced them anyway gratis)
ALL car manufactuers issue silent recalls and TSBs, and they are typically for more numerous than you expect, because the only time you’ll ever hear from the company is when it’s a general recall.
Many of the problems you cite ARE dealer errors. Oil-burning, did they start you on a diagnosis program after you reported it? Window regulators… these have been metal clips for the last three years and are covered by an extended warranty (indicating that VW acknowledges the problem and will fix it for free with the new metal clip). If your dealer keeps using plastic parts AND charging you for it then he’s screwing you over.
After all you’ve described, I still place most of the blame on the dealer.
The car itself? The car had problems, but none of it would have been a money pit to you had the dealer addressed the problem quickly and accurately.
YupOldBull Said,
October 22, 2004 @ 7:42 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I must do math differently than you.
2000 Jetta GLS 2 general recalls, 3 extended warranties, and 76 TSB?
2000 Ford Taurus: 5 silent recalls, 2 general recalls, 48 TSBs
The Jetta is better than the Ford? Is that because VWOA issues a TSB instead of a recall for a ?nown?defect? 76 of them! No recalls issued for these items on my Jetta! Do they look familiar? (Rear brake pads, Temperature gauge sensor, Glove box hinge, Instrument cluster, Torn front floor mats, Coolant migration, Blown Clutch, CEL, Sunroof, Coolant flange, Oil burning, Rear Camber Alignment) Ford owners might be getting a ?eeded?recall and all we get with the Jetta is another TSB. The VW service department is getting a ?eads-up?with a TSB and can plan in advance how they are going ?andle?the customer. Is this another case of them ?ucking?known problems at the customers expense? If so, Ford is the better car.
Are these VW Dealership problems or VW OEM problems?
Why would a law firm specifically mention VW oil burning and run a web page devoted entirely to VW oil burning problems?
http://www.lemonlawclaims.com/Volkswagenoilconsumption.htm
No VW recalls on oil burning 2.0 litre engines? How come? However, there are 2 TSB? on the topic.
Here are some thoughts on recalls, silent recalls, and extended warranties.
First of all, there is a big difference between extending a “”warranty”" and doing a “”recall”"….VW is doing a warranty extension on the (MAF) Mass Air Flow Sensors and several other items. Very few vehicles will meet the criteria for warranty extension. In my estimation, they are still trying to side-step the issue of cost and publicity. They have been slow to offer just a “”minimum”" of help to offset major “”recurring”" repair issues with the early Jetta?. This has hurt them and it will continue to hurt them. They have to ?tep up?sooner or later.
And then we come to the “”silent recall”". While I agree that it can be used to upgrade parts on a vehicle ?ilently?during regular service (either with or without the customers knowledge)?.it may also have an ?vil side?definition. The ?ilent recall?can be ?hispered?to the Dealership by a MFG. rep. If a customer comes in and complains about a specific known or pre-discussed issue…..the dealership might be given the authority to fix the problem and the MFG? rep. will agree (in advance) to ?ork with?the dealership to cover a portion of the expense ?..Often the rep will agree to split the actual repair costs with the dealership. (Call it a sales policy allowance (SPA)?or goodwill?that? a joke!) If the customer doesn’t complain about ?ay?a “”clutch”" wear issue….the customer pays for the entire repair. Why send out a recall to 200,000 car owners when only “”maybe”" half (100,000) of them are bad!(?) And only 1% (1,000) of the half that are bad, will complain to the US dealerships. Like it wore out in 30k! And then the US dealerships only help half (500) of those that complain! (Usually just very good customers, the service managers priest, or those that threaten litigation!) And then the MFG and all the US dealerships split the costs on ?ust?250 clutches each. Going from 200,000 to 250 is pretty darn good! This saves the MFG and dealership a lot of money! And we, the customer, get to pay a lot of money!
With a silent recall nothing may be in writing or tracked?.problems are often swept under the parts room floor mats?that is why it is a ?ilent?recall. (even often unknown to the MFG? middle management?.probably also ?nknown?to upper management decision makers)?Sometimes the ?efective parts?(which are written off with proper internal charge codes) are often unrelated to what is actually being repaired?.for example?A MFG? rep. will see an influx of problems with a known documented ?efect?with ?ay?starters?.and none for ?ay?clocks. The starter is an easily approved item for write-off from his management. Clocks are harder to write-off, because he has to document the defects and write up reports because they have no defect history. He needs to cover two clocks with ?red?at the dealership?.so he writes off an ?xtra?starter?.The problem is that the two clocks never ?how up?as a problem and the starter problem is exaggerated. Those making QC and other decisions at the MFG never get the actual ?eal?data. The dealership is often compensated for these repairs on
an ?ctual?cost basis?not at the $60/hour shop rate ?.but rather just what the mechanic earns?.the actual wage paid to the mechanic?say $25/hour. Usually very few people at the dealership are involved or know of the details. Even the people that are ?ery, very, close?to the repair work do not know of the inner workings and how they are actually paid for. The MFG rep. (Happy Joe) works his own ?eals?and tries to keep everyone pleased. That is why he buys the pizza for the boys once a month!
If the number of “”official”" recalls on a particular vehicle is low it makes it looks better ?ating wise?and problems are probably harder for agencies to ?rack? Fewer ?ecalls?gives the car owner a ?armer feeling?and agencies no cause to investigate. Warranty extension sounds more positive than ?nother recall?on my car! I think by law they have to attempt to notify ?ll?of the car owners of a recall. I believe that a warranty extension covers you ?f you have the existing problem?and meet the criteria. Big difference! The MAF was extended to 7 years or 70k. Great, I have 4 years with 91k. I don? meet their criteria! It does me no good! I would have more leverage (when it fails again at 120k) if it was a recalled item. (Here we go again?this is another way to go from 200,000 vehicles down to 250 vehicles?.make the criteria very difficult!) That is probably another reason why “”warranty extensions”" are used rather than “”recalls”".
297 Said,
October 22, 2004 @ 7:53 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I noted that the 2000 Jetta 1.8T was better than the Taurus, not your 2.0L, so that part is moot.
We can go continue to go through numbers and deal with how VWOA decides to treat its customers, but the bottom line is a good dealership will go to bat for you and get things done. This has happened time and again for many customers, where the service manager WILL do everything possible to keep them happy. The regret is that the majority of VW dealerships are not like this, and VWOA sides 90% of the time with the dealership on claims. Silent recalls should be performed at the next scheduled service, period. Any dealership that does not do this is shady. WHy do you think I keep touting excellent service from Timmons VW? They replaced my coilpacks even when I wasn’t part of the suspected batch of defectives, but just wanted to make sure. Oh, sure, they probably pocketed some cash from VWOA for it, but at the same time, they did this without my prompting. And once, during a service, I asked if they could replace the fuel filter, and they didn’t bother to ask me why nor charge me for it. A good dealership is a good dealership, period. Cars with recalls and TSBs are common across all brands, but how a dealership deals with those recalls and TSBs is what keeps a car in good shape.
Re: your MAF. You’ve driven your car far more in four years than most people would in eight, so your MAF is out of warranty. So instead, VW drops the price to $35 instead of $200+ or whatever the hell it is (and still is for 1.8Ts). I don’t see why you need to complain about this.
Ronster Said,
October 22, 2004 @ 10:32 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Let’s all cut jasenm a little slack. No doubt he’s got lots of time on his hands at the dealership. (I can actually hear the crickets!) Once he’s moved on up to, say Best Buy, he’ll be way to busy to spend the day posting here.
Ronster Said,
October 22, 2004 @ 10:33 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Let’s all cut jasenm a little slack. No doubt he’s got lots of time on his hands at the dealership. (I can actually hear the crickets!) Once he’s moved on up to, say Best Buy, he’ll be way to busy too spend the day posting here.
YupOldBull Said,
October 23, 2004 @ 7:21 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – What! Yes, lets talk about the MAF sensor failing! Mine was replaced at 43k. Was the replacement a good one? The extended warranty came along over a year later, after I had mine fixed. If they put the same defective part back in, (like they have done with the window regulators, glove box hinges, and coil packs), mine is probably going to fail again under 100k. What good does the 7 year / 70k do me? None! If you are the second owner of the vehicle and it is over 50k it is invalid also! That eliminates a lot of cars! What I want to know is why did it break in the first place at 43k? Was the replacement at 43k a defective one also? If so, will the replacement at 100k be defective? Where does this all end?
I have learned that neither the Dealership nor VWOA does critical thinking and I am tired of doing it for them. And really tired of repair trips to the dealership!
Why has my 2000 Jetta had $12,000 worth of repairs in 48 months?
Why did VW continue to put known defective parts back on my car?
Why did VWOA and the VW dealership ignore reasonable requests to repair the car?
Why did I have to pursue a legal battle for compensation?
Why didnt they offer to make it right with the customer?
Why does my car have only 2 formal recalls, but 76 TSBs?
Why do they offer to help with extended warranties when faced with litigation?
Why dont they offer help without the threat of safety concerns or litigation issues?
Why did the rear brakes wear out prematurely? Twice?
When is the NTSB going to pursue safety concerns with the early Jettas? (Rear brakes? Air bags?, Heated Seats?)
When is the Federal EPA going to explore how many defective oil burning 2.0 litre engines have been replaced? (I burned 45 quarts in 93k!)
When is the state Attorneys General going to get involved with deceptive recurring repair procedures? (My dealer insisted on a $100 scope charge!)
Why am I reading that some of the problems with the early Jettas are occurring on the 2003 and 2004 models?
When is the class action suit coming? How many people do we need?
Here is a fact with this vehicle. The cost of repairs ($12,000), lawyer fees, and compensation award is greater than the purchase price ($20,000) of the vehicle!
I dont think you have a dog in this fight. You should be thankful you dont.
And I dont know why you are a VW advocate?
If a person receives good service they tell 5 people. If a person receives bad service they tell 50 people. This has been know by Marketing Groups for 50 years!
jasenm Said,
October 23, 2004 @ 11:16 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – BOY THE STUFF I GET CALLED ON. I MEANT 3500. FYI CHEVY HASNT USED THE 3100 SINCE THEY SWITCHED TO THE SAAB PLT. AND YES ITS 205 HP. SMARTA**! BETTER BEST BUY THAN THE TACO JOHNS YOURE SWEATING IN, KID.
ZX1100F1 Said,
October 25, 2004 @ 12:53 pm
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – No jasenm! That was for your information you schmuck.
You moved up to Best Buy now? Well I guess that’s a move up for a retard.
mailman Said,
October 26, 2004 @ 6:28 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Have to comment on the fact that VWs are performance cars. I would agree that mechanically, VWs probably top the list in longevity and performance … particularly when compared to other similarly priced makes/models.
However, in terms of overall reliability, I have to say I am somewhat displeased with the electronics. There have been multiple failures in the 25K miles I’ve owned the car. Stuff like switches and sensors that still worked on my old Nissan with 230K miles on it were failing on my VW with only 50-75K miles on it. To me, completely unacceptable. However, on a lighter note, the dealership (Langan VW in CT) has bent over backwards fixing all of these problems under their used car warranty. I am very pleased about that.
I don’t watch much TV, and certainly am intelligent enough to make a purchases based on facts … not commercials. What I was looking for in a car was economy, reliability, and longevity. Didn’t much care about performance, as the purchase was for my daily commuter car. I also wanted a diesel. That narrowed the field to one vehicle … a VW TDI, which is what I purchased used with 50K miles on it.
Overall I am very pleased with the mechanical performance of the engine and I am convinced the engine will last at least 300K miles. Also, I am very pleased with the dealership that sold me the car. However, I am very disappointed with the electronics … I can’t even begin to imagine the electrical failures that lurk in the shadows during those 300K miles. Arghhhh!
So, I drive her every day and enjoy the purrr of the mechanical masterpiece under the hood and my yearly average fuel economy of 48 mpg. Yet, that enjoyment is tempered with the ever growing list of electrical and/or cheap plastic stuff that continues to break.
jasenm Said,
October 26, 2004 @ 6:28 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – zx, you are truly a mental midget. get a grip, junior high is over, not our fault you didnt finish.
twengl Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 1:14 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – wow. some interesting posts.
in september i finally got rid of my ‘99 golf GLS that I bought new from elvin hayes VW in houston. i had a serious love/hate relationship with that car. when it ran it was great- it handled beautifully, looked great…it just had this annoying habit of falling apart. and burning oil.
i’ve read posts by people implying that dissatisfaction with VWs results from poor upkeep. i can’t answer for anybody else, but i was fastidious in having my golf serviced- to no avail. sensors, window regulators, timing belt tensioners…the list of problems goes on and on. and it all cost a lot of money.
this summer i took it for some AC work to an excellent repair shop in seabrook, texas- the kaferhaus- where years ago i had taken my 79 rabbit (you’d think i would have learned). my misgivings about my car were all confirmed by talking to the staff. the consensus- VWs are cool cars but horribly unreliable.
i guess what i’m getting by reading the posts here is that some people are willing to endure the inconvenience and expense involved in owning a VW. that’s fine- i just get a little annoyed by the sermonizing directed at those of us who are unhappy with our experience.
i now regard myself as a recovering VW owner. for a variety of reasons i replaced my golf with a new toyota tundra truck. i sold my last toyota truck when it had 225k miles on it. the buyer drove it until he died. apples and oranges, i know….
then why is my tundra quicker than the golf?
ZX1100F1 Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 3:46 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I just cant quite grasp the rational behind these VW are performance cars posts.
You are obviously making a statement that is basically; Since VWs are performance machines you should expect to have many problems associated with this fact, and Paul takes it to another step by stating that; VWs have nice interiors and styling and many high tech sensors so you should expect them to be substandard in other areas and not complain.
Lets look at the simple facts:
1. At a starting price of $18,255 for a new Jetta GL and $16,405 for the Golf (Im talking base price no options) these arent exactly cheap cars.
2. With a base 2.0 115Hp motor they cant even come close to being considered a performance car either, although they do make the 1.8T and V6 models almost all of the problems mentioned on this site are not related to the engines.
3. While these contraptions do have many sensors necessitated by the new OBDII standards so do all other automobiles sold in the U.S.
4. Fact is that most all of us who have had problems with our VWs and posted comments did not purchase performance models, therefore these feeble claims being made about the performance aspect of these piles of **** is irrelevant and plays no factor in the cause of the numerous component failures that plague this brand.
5. Fact is also that most of us who have purchased these VWs have simply expected reasonable reliability from these automobiles as we would from any other car purchase.
6. And finally I think that I speak for many of us when I say that; I enjoy most every aspect of my VW (2001 Jetta GLS TDI) except the chronic reliability issues and lousy dealer network. While I like the cars styling and overall character Im not sure its worth the extra aggravation some times.
297 Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 4:14 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Try reading my posts again before putting words in my mouth. Should I quote myself in bold so you can read it a little more clearly?
VWs do require maintenance above the average of economy cars. I never denied this, and I also do not deny that VW makes it harder than it should be to get warranty work done on justifiably defective parts. But it is also true that there are more parts that can go wrong in a VW because there are more parts that can fail — the sensor array alone is ridiculously complex but is part of VWs philisophy of maximizing the performance output of the engine design.
I do not excuse VW for its failure in customer service, nor do I find defective parts excusable. I point out that with more parts there are more unforeseen problems — this is with any system, not just cars.
1. No, they are not. They were never economy cars to begin with. They are cars with good interiors (a $25k Nissan 350Z has worse interior material) and peppy engines.
2. The 2.0L is old, but has always proven itself a decent motor in its class. Let me repeat that, in. its. class. Compared to a Honda Civic and its crappy torque curve, a Golf will prove a more than capable car.
3. VW took the OBDII standard and expanded on it with a proprietary set of codes to address the far more complex systems they introduced in the MkIV platform.
4. You fail to address the part where performance means maximizing the design. The 2.0L performs well for its class, its low-end torque makes people grin in traffic. Surrounding that engine are a number of sensors that allow that engine to perform at an optimum level. Again, the idea of “sports” vs. “performance” is lost in this argument. VWs have high-performance engines — in their class. Comparing the BMW’s V6 to the 2.0L is kind of silly, don’t you think?
5. I agree. But this is a fault for all companies. Toyota and Honda have built a reputation on solid economy models while they continue development of performance engines in their other lines. Remember when they first came out? Crappy tin-can Japanese imports that people scoffed at? Yeah, because they were new and were prone to wear or suffered defects unforeseen by the manufacturer. Welcome to the life of the VW MkIV platform. It, too, is new in quite a number of ways, and VW has suffered for it. Again, I am not excusing the problems it has suffered, and I most certainly agree that VW has been less than forthcoming about helping its customers solve these issues — but didn’t you ever learn to never buy a completely redesigned model until at least after two generations if you wanted to avoid unforeseen problems?
6. Nothing to say about your personal experience and feelings, but I’m glad you enjoy your car during the moments when it isn’t being a pain.
Beck Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 7:05 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – You know Paul,
If Volksyugo would just have printed or shown this part of your post in their commercials and brochures “”VWs do require maintenance above the average of economy cars. I never denied this, and I also do not deny that VW makes it harder than it should be to get warranty work done on justifiably defective parts. But it is also true that there are more parts that can go wrong in a VW because there are more parts that can fail — the sensor array alone is ridiculously complex but is part of VWs philisophy of maximizing the performance output of the engine design.”"
I don’t think 98% of people you see post in this site won’t even have to do so, because me, and I’m sure, most of the the unhappy posters will never have bought their car from a company with these flawed business philosophies…………period!
That passage you wrote in bold makes me happy that we at least, basically agree about a lot of things wrong with Volksyugo.
“”Come over to the light Paul! you are all wanted! Children of Volksyugo, go to the light! Look at the light……no don’t look at the light…..OK!, look at the light!! Come all children of Volksyugo! come to the light!”"
msbell Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 9:03 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – beck — what light — the EPC light or the check engine light ? Does EPC stand for Especially Problematic Car?
az.6669 Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 9:20 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – VW performance car ???
I hope your are making a big joke here – first of all bmw don’t have 2.1 liter engine – they have 2.5 or 3.0 on the 3 series exepting the m3 – they are straight 6 rear wheel drive car with a 50/50 wieght distribution. Now this is what I call a sport car. You say your race ??? well if you did you would learn what a sport car is.
It is not really about a 1/4 mile or a 0 to 60 time but more like a lap time. And at that sport I don’t think any vw can come close to a bmw. Maybee an r32 but that would be it.
VW are front wheel drive underbuilt car.
I own a gti and after two turn the brakes are completly faded. The stock suspension is more about look then perfomance. The transmission is weak and it came with all season continental tires that are not really sports tire.
I don’t want to hurt you but even passat are far away from being sports car. Front wheel drive – and underbuilt cars.
297 Said,
November 9, 2004 @ 11:25 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Sports car does not equal performance car.
You’re right, VWs are underbuilt — but that’s the charm. They’re cheap to acquire, satisfy most customers, but can be made glorious with just a little bit more scratch money.
Performance comes in many forms, and VW most definitely appeals to some elements of performance in its models.
As an example, let’s consider the Audi/VW 1.8T engine. This was on Ward’s 10 Best Engines and one of the last I4 types listed before the list succumbed to the new V6 engines (the other I4 clinging to the list was the Honda S200’s). The engine block is capable of sustaining 400+ wheel horsepower and is finely tuned to provide low-end torque and high-end performance. Naturally, to get it to work you spend some money — but getting a stock vanilla 1.8T for $15k and spending another $5k on the engine can get you to a place far better than spending $20k on a car that out-performs the stock variant.
For under $20k you will buy a base model that performs better than the average car (better driving and better interior). The sacrifice in having a finely-tuned sensor-loaded model has faced criticism in reliability that is not unfounded, though personally, I just feel that any buyer that wants rock-solid stability really should buy an economy model car whose excellence is based on that tenet. VWs do require maintenance above the average of economy cars. I never denied this, and I also do not deny that VW makes it harder than it should be to get warranty work done on justifiably defective parts. But it is also true that there are more parts that can go wrong in a VW because there are more parts that can fail — the sensor array alone is ridiculously complex but is part of VWs philisophy of maximizing the performance output of the engine design.
Comparing a VW to a BMW is unfair simply because BMWs are at a higher price point. You do get what you pay for, and for a sub-$20k car, VWs are cheap performance cars with the potential to kill a stock BMW if someone decided to spend the difference in cost between the two models (about $10k, which would get the VW 1.8T to about, oh, 280hp, better suspension, wheels, and tires, or if against a 5 series, $20k will allow the installation of the TT’s Quattro system, which should fit, seeing as the TT is the same platform as a GTI — that BMW’s in trouble now, isn’t it?). They may be very well matched at that point.
But who cares? You buy what you want — just make sure it is exactly what you want and are aware of the pros and cons of that want.
The fact is, VWs ARE performance cars, moreso than a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. Stock, they aren’t as superb as BMWs, but you also didn’t spend an extra ten grand.
Want to know the better buy? Dodge Neon SRT-4. sub-$20k 250hp car — runs circles around a GTI with better handling and bigger turbo and engine. The bad part? The interior sucks ass… and it’s really, really ugly. But so is the Subaru WRX and yet a lot of kiddies like the sucker for similar reasons.
Beck Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 1:27 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I would still say I got you on that one Paul, but I wouldn’t want to gloat. Problem is, you and a lot of Volksyugo fan’s definition of “”performance”" is narrowly defined on how fast you can Autocross the family sedan, which these Volksyugos primarily are, down the city streets and parking lot autocross courses. A company that knows what 99% of the driving world encounters out there will place reliability as the number one priority in their goal to produce good automotive products. The most logical base to build a good car platform on. Once they have that, they can put all the handling and power enhancements into the package as icing. If Volksyugo insists on contuinually making their cars uneccessarily complicated, all in the cause of “”putting smiles”" in the faces of boy racer type drivers around the world, they can be decent enough to at least build in redunduncy into the systems knowing that they will most likely have failures as you have confirmed. That’s called good Engineering Practices! Problem is, some of these fragile systems might end up killing someone cause it dies out in the middle of 70MPH freeway traffic (like mine did), compromising vehicle control and leaving the driver and his passengers a sitting duck out there as the Hondas Toyotas and Fords fly by. Can you and Volksyugo live with that?
All we are asking is for Volksyugo Engineers and Marketing people is to try and use their brains a little more…just a little more and it will make such a big difference. End of another satiisfying and logical rant!
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 2:02 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – You don’t get it, do you? VW performance is not for the Autobahn. VWs are designed to drive in the city — that’s the point of low-end torque, to get power quickly at low speeds. Hondas, on the other hand, have engines designed with power up-top — they are anemic at low RPMs and therefore not as good for stop and go city/freeway driving. The smile on a person’s face while driving a VW is not because it goes fast on a straightaway — it’s because when they need power to merge or avoid another driver, they have it.
Power and handling “icing” — that’s what has caused the VW systems to be complex, and why Honda and Toyota cars are so simple and basic.
Furthermore, shall we then tell Toyota to cancel the Prius and to shelve it for five or so years until hybrid technology and the necessary electronics that accompany it have matured? My friend already got stranded by her Prius on the Pacific Coast Highway on her way to Santa Barbara. Not fun, that. Shortly after, oneof the tires blew. Yep, recall the Prius! It’s too early for hyrbid tech! You’re being a bit of a Luddite if you really want to think that way.
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 2:06 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – By the way, continuing to use the term “”Volksyugo”" automatically labels you to many readers as perhaps too fanatical in your hatred.
You’re better off leaving such labels out of your posts — they’ll earn more respect that way, rather than marking you as a nigh-raving lunatic.
Beck Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 2:13 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – On the contrary, I believe you are the one raving here. Just read you continuous and repetitive posts which is now starting to get quite pointed if I might say. If you can’t get the humor around the term “Volksyugo”. I think you love your car and the company who made it too much. Grow up a little there’s more to life than those German four wheels with the hybrid turbo.
YupOldBull Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 2:19 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! –
Lets talk fraud.
Innovation doesnt mean we have to sue them to fix the problems!
My wife has a 2002 Camry. Not one problem with it in two years. Zero recalls. Not sure about the TSBs. Never had to look them up!
My 2000 Jetta has had 2 recalls, 3 extended warranties, and 76 TSBs!
My Camry has had oil changes!
My Jetta has had $12,000 in repairs in 48 months of ownership! Do you want to see the list of repair items again?
I had to go to court over my Jetta. I didnt go to court with my Camry.
I say again. VWOA only moves when there is a safety, litigation, or threat of litigation issue!
How can you defend the vehicle or VWOA! Isnt it clear to you yet!
We dont need anymore VW advocates here. What we need is for someone to start sending information to the State Attorneys General about a potential fraud case against VWOA and some VW dealerships!
Beck Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 3:14 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – yupoldbull, I think these guys will never get it. They will constantly spin their posts to defend Volksyugo through hell or high water. It kinda reminds me of the fanaticism that my 14 year old nephew has for certain cars, and how he puts his favorite cars on infallable and imaginary shrines of worship. Even the way their posts get insulting and mad at us in such juvenile ways (ie… Pauls latest personal barbs against me) is more of how a teenage carstruck person would react to our valid complaints based on personal experiences. Let them keep posting the way they do and look silly doing so. In the end, we know who’s right about Volksyugo anyway.
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 3:25 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Actually, it’s more that I’m getting tired of you. I’ve tried to clarify and reclarfiy my position such that you don’t twist it into something else, but it just doesn’t seem to get through. You think I’m repeating myself. Maybe I am in an attempt to make you understand my position (which you apparently still don’t get), and maybe it’s useless to make you see my point since you already made it for me.
Yes, I do love my car. It doesn’t mean I go out into the garage and stare at it lovingly and coo about how wonderful it is. It also doesn’t mean I recognize its faults. I respect the company’s innovation policy, but dislike its customer service policy and disagree with its attempts to trend upwards towards the luxury car business.
yupoldbull, I’m glad Rick doesn’t share your sentiment about VW advocates on the board. It’d be real boring and not at all productive for people looking to find answers to questions regarding repair and warranty. And sure, maybe people just want to come here and rant, but it’d still be boring if everyone just went right ahead and kept ranting along with you.
Isn’t it clear to you yet that your experience differs from mine? Maybe if I had the same problems you did, I’d be singing a different tune… then again, maybe not.
I’m not passionate about VW, but I probably seem to be since I have to play the unpopular tune on this particular board. Hell, my next car will probably be a Toyota, because I like their new policy of new and interesting things (Scion line, Synergy Drive) that’s what made me like VW, and it’s what makes me interested in Mazda’s Renesis engine, BMW’s new V10, the Infiniti G35 V6, etc. For the moment, I own a VW, I dig the car, it’s got a great engine, nice interior, and has never given me a problem. I’ve also sought to learn of potential problems, known issues, and in general tried to get to know my car far more than the average consumer. With that research, I’ve come to respect the MkIV platform in everything it sought to do and recognize its failures. That’s it. No more, no less. Constant accusations of my being a VW rep, affiliate, or rabid affiocionado are grossly in error, but apparently unavoidable from certain folks who just can’t seem to get around their own personal bias formed from a bad experience.
Complaining about it is good. Getting it solved is better. Posting on this site is probably cathartic — until you just keep doing it for no apparent reason than to feed your discontent. At that point, you’re just a broken record.
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 3:31 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Personal barbs, beck? Riiiight.
YupOldBull Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 3:42 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I will think of your prophetic words, as I place a bucket under my rear tail lights to catch the engine coolant that drips out.
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 3:55 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – It’s good to know that the axiom “misery loves company” is as true today as it was when Sophocles uttered something similar back in the days when people wore togas.
Beck Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 4:00 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Broken record Paul??? Riiight!!!
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 4:11 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Just with you, beck. My plan is to state and restate my position till you acknowledge it.
Cheers.
Beck Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 4:19 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – “Formed by A bad experience”, More like a whole bunch of stupid, frustrating and sometimes dangerous Volksyugo problems for most of us! Riiiight!
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 4:29 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I’d call that a bad experience. Would you rather I use the word traumatic?
297 Said,
November 10, 2004 @ 10:38 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Flawed company policy?
Er… now where did you go from my statement to that?
VW cars: more sensors, finer performance tuning
Toyota/Honda economy models: less sensors, older (tried and true) parts, more tolerance at the sacrifice of performance
Result: Better performance but potential for malfunction greater in vehicle with less tolerance and more new parts.
I would expect the MkV to have far less problems, except that it introduced the new FSI engine. That means another new slate. VW continues to experiment with innovative performance — it’s always best to wait till at least the 3rd model year. In the meantime, the Toyota gets a new “look”.
Innovation, by virtue of its definition, implies new technology, new ways of doing something — and when something gets mass-produced, you’ll find unforeseen complications, bad manufacturing standards, a lot of little things that you just don’t get to address at the prototype level where everything is hand-made with utmost care and precision.
If Toyota and/or Honda decided to build a brand new model, there’d be problems galore… oh, wait, Toyota did. It’s called the Prius. It’s an amazing machine, but the LCD interface has gone through a few revisions since launch. The battery needs to be charged every two weeks or you’ll be accused of negligence by the dealership and have your warranty voided. The stock tires are horrible (oh, wait, that’s pretty much all Toyotas, but on the Prius they’ve been wearing out prematurely). The fuel tank meter is known to be bad. Trim panels fit poorly (I remember when the 1998 New Beetle came out and had this problem). Service for the Prius is currently horrible because most techs are still learning the new system.
Figure it out, beck. It’s tiresome to hear you rant and rave continuously over the same ground. A company can try its hardest to make sure the product functions perfectly when it comes off the assembly line, but the chances of a malfunction or defect increase virtually exponentially when that product features new systems.
So go ahead and blame VW for trying to innovate, building a 1.8L engine block that can withstand 400 horsepower or trying a new way of mixing air and gas in the new FSI engine. You get a car that makes you smile when you drive it versus a good old workhouse of a car.
Most people who buy VWs buy them because they have style and during the test drive it made them smile. Most people I know who own Camrys and Civics just think of them as a vehicle that gets them from Point A to Point B.
I greatly wished VWoA was more accomodating and that customer service was excellent across the board, and that is perhap the one place where I find the greatest fault in VW. But I will not fault them for trying to find new ways to build a car and risking the chance of a new part breaking in doing so.
gerald palmer Said,
November 11, 2004 @ 2:14 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – i have a 2001 wolfsburg since it was brand new had all the problems have it hooked up a bit. i use to think like you until i got into an accident and my air bags did not go off plus my seat belt failed to lock. so my head almost went through the windshield and i bit my tounge off. i have probably paid a good $3000 to fix the recalls. had a custom coil pack braket made to hold my coil packs down to fix the misfire recall. so you can think what you want just don’t get into an accident there river boy or you will find out about the great enginering
twengl Said,
November 11, 2004 @ 3:36 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – it amuses me that someone would take the time and effort to go to a website called “”vwsucks.com”" and proceed to lecture everybody about how VWs just aren’t that bad. i would respectfully advise paul and other VW apologists to start a competing website and do their chest-thumping there. my golf was, in terms of reliability, the worst car i ever owned- period. no amount of this “”shut up and eat your spinach”" pontification changes the experiences we had with our cars. i knew several people who bought VWs at roughly the same time-ALL of them had lousy experiences and none would buy another one. i don’t think it’s coincidence.
as i said in my earlier post- if some people like these cars enough to put up with trouble and expense involved-fine. speaking for myself, i have to say that there’s more to my life than servicing my car and evangelizing to others about how cool it is.
297 Said,
November 12, 2004 @ 10:06 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I would then say there’s more to life than festering about how crappy your car is and posting it on a site incessantly.
I guess we’re both wasting our time if put that way.
I’m here to provide solutions if I can.
Evangelicizing the company and its product has never entered into it.
jratn Said,
February 21, 2005 @ 10:23 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Yeah VWs are good, the ORIGINAL BEETLE.
I sold my corvette and bought a beetle. No big deal. I made some money. I have driven my bug now for 15K mi. The MAF went bad. VW will not replace despite the fact that they have recalled so many.
Here is my point. VWs are built for the dealer to service, not the HAPPY DRIVER.
I may have spent more time working on my vette, but i could blow the doors off any v-dub anyday, and still get 30 mpg. My point – VW sux. You want a kick A** daily driver, buy a vette. Not a remake hitler car (dont complain unless you do your Homework)
jratn Said,
February 21, 2005 @ 10:32 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Yeah VWs are good, the ORIGINAL BEETLE.
I sold my corvette and bought a beetle. No big deal. I made some money. I have driven my bug now for 15K mi. The MAF went bad. VW will not replace despite the fact that they have recalled so many.
BTW – I am only 25 and I drive and own the following:
1982 Cutlass – New Engine and trans
1950 Chevy Truck – 71K mi, 3 on the tree, 411 rear end, I-6 216, AND NO IT DOES NOT HAVE AN OIL FILTER. Somethings were built better back then.
The body on VW cars seems to be solid, however their mechanicals suck big time.
Here is my point. VWs are built for the dealer to service, not the HAPPY DRIVER.
I may have spent more time working on my vette, but i could blow the doors off any v-dub anyday, and still get 30 mpg. My point – VW sux. You want a kick A** daily driver, buy a vette. Not a remake hitler car (dont complain unless you do your Homework)
rick Said,
February 21, 2005 @ 11:54 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – … what?
OK this is sure to rekindle the debate about expiring posts!
YupOldBull Said,
February 22, 2005 @ 3:09 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – I really don’t mind looking through an older thread. They remind you of the “”perspective”" and are often helpful. Besides, do we want a new thread just like it to start all over again?
(Current date with the same topics) Just better to leave it here.
rick Said,
February 22, 2005 @ 8:39 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Then at least we gotta add a grammar check!
vwnogo Said,
February 27, 2005 @ 2:17 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Okay – I will soon be the proud seller of a 98 Getta GL maybe MR PassatVR6 will give me going value for it and I will gladly purchase something else – the Getta has gotten me good. Other than replacing everything from an ignition module, maf sensor, the usual cap, rotor, plugs, wires, not so usual part of the exhaust sytem from the manifold to the catalytic converter (not vw covered – pipe split down seam – failed emissions test), and am now looking for a “”ghost”" problem where the car may start, may crank but not start, or may just sit there – I’ve had it.
Would like someone here to get something right. At least for my particular 98 Volkswagon Jetta – it likes to Getta me in the wallet – it’s a wannabe European car – it is a Mexican built piece of German Engineering and I think too many Burritoes with Mexican Jumping Beans and Tequila went into it’s making. As far as performance it does perform a good rendition of a Mexican Jumping Bean…
I dont expect performance from a 2.0 liter engine. I just want a car that I can get into every now and then and not have to worry about before I get in it.
Here is a list of things I think about before and during driving… none of them relate to where I get the best powerband, what is the optimum rpm to shif at, what gear ratio I should be running etc.
1) Get keys – Is the car going to start?
2) Key in Ignition – Is car going to turn engine?
3) Engine is turning – Is engine going to crank over?
4) Engine is running – I’m out of driveway, onto parkway – Am I going to get to do the Jumping Bean Act for the drivers around me.
5 ) Jumping Bean Act was a success – go back to #1, however have moved the car 20miles – may need backup – did I charge my cell phone?
6 ) Okay the car is tired from it’s perfomance of the Mexican Jumping Bean – will need to flatbed it – sometimes it likes to go to the garage so I’ll take it there.
7) Wait a couple of months – the car will start performing it’s Mexican Jumping Bean Act again.
This “”Mexican Jumping Bean”" performance is my best way of explaining what the car does. It sounds funny but is really quite dangerous. I had someone driving far too close to me as I was going off the on ramp when the act started and was almost rearended/ sideswiped by the car behind be.
I agree with VR6 it’s not a boring car to drive, and I am accustomed to performance style vehicles. First car was a Mustang Cobra Turbo and the Second a Dodge Daytona Shelby. I am just not accustomed to this type of “”EuroPEON”" performance. I will admit it is the best handling car I have been in for the price. What good is a car that handles well if you can’t safely drive it? PassatVR6 – will trade straight up for a 98 Chevy Malibu, standard transmission of course. I would race you for pink slips, however pretty sure the Malibu would win ’cause I would have a hard time getting out of the hole. Let me know. I’ll give you my e-mail address and some pictures of the car.
297 Said,
February 27, 2005 @ 5:32 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Isn’t posting this once enough?
YupOldBull Said,
February 27, 2005 @ 5:38 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – This is just like Star Trek, where you are not permitted to interfere with the past, present, or future. Relax, and beam me down as a VW rep.
tmkreutzer Said,
March 1, 2005 @ 6:03 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – My VW golf diesel is NOT a performance car. If anything, it is an underperformance car.
Next time I will buy a Malibu – because for me the key word is RELIABLE.
terribleVW Said,
March 7, 2005 @ 3:15 am
CRY ME A RIVER YOU POOR PEOPLE!! – Poor people? I assume you must be in that category since you obviously cannot spell or perhaps you are just illiterate. For future reference, it is properly spelled Volkswagen!