2002
Hi all;
Thank god for the internet. I am posting this message in hopes that I can prevent someone else from going thru the aggrevation that I am currently going thru with my 2002 Passat. I bought my car brand new in 2002 from Donaldson’s volkswagen in sayville ny. I have had nothing but aggrevation with this car and especially with the quality of customer service at Donaldson’s from day one.
This is the first new car that I have ever bought and I bought a Volkswagen because of there reputation of quality German engineering. This was mistake number one. maybe at one time long ago Germans did build a quality vehicle, but like everything else in this world quality is strongly lacking.
Problem 1: I always took my car back to the dealer for oil changes while the vehicle was covered under warranty. (so they couldn’t claim otherwise if a problem occured). In order to change the oil in a Passat, a plastic shroud that covers the entire bottom of the engine has to be removed to get access to the oil pan. This is no easy task and the shroud is held on with flimsy plastic screws. (a real pain in the butt, quality German engineering) 2 days after my second oil, at Donaldson’s Volkswagen, I was driving down the highway when I heard this loud scraping sound. I pulled over on the highway and saw that the plastic shroud had come loose and was dragging on the road and was now ripped to shreds. I immediately called Donaldson’s to let them know what had happened, before I finished my explaination I was advised by one of the quality service managers at Donaldson’s that I must of hit something in the road which caused the shroud to fall off and without missing a beat, he told me that Donaldson’s was not repsonsible, it was not covered under warranty and would cost me $200 to fix.
Problem 2: Within the first year, I had problems with the vehiicle not starting or loosing power while driving. This was attributed to faulty ignition coils which was fortunatley covered by a recall notice.
Problem 3: One day I open my glove compartment to find it filled with water. I return the car to Donaldson’s Volkswagen for more repairs. The claim the problem was a faulty hose in the engine compartment. They could not explain why the hose was faulty or how it caused water to get into my glove compartment. I have not had water in the glove compartment since, but now my car has this constant musty/mildew smell. so I took it back to Donaldson’s Volkwagen. They claim there was nothing they could do. (the car was only 5 months old and still covered under warranty.) After much agrrevation and complaining, their wonderful service manager Felipe Pagano, , advised me that he had permission from Volkswagen to go ahead and de-ionize my vehicle to remove the terrible odor. (I have no idea what de-ionization is or what it does and niether did Felipe). Needless to say the vehicle still stinks to this day.
Problem 4: One day I open the hood and notice that the entire engine is covered with oil. (the car is only 6 months old at this time). Again, I take it back to Donaldson’s Volkwagen. Still covered under warranty the car is repaired, but of course I am given some vague, cryptic response as to why a brand new car has a major oil leak.
Problem 5: The vehicle is now out of warranty. the engine light goes on and off more than my turning signal. Because the engine light is on I cannot inspect my vehicle (this is in New York). So I make the big mistake of going back to Donaldson’s Volkswagen. They tell me that there are several problems with the vehicle and it will cost me $700to repair. I decline the service and pick up my car immediately. of cousre they weren’t going to let me go without ripping me off. they charged me over $100 for there troubleshooting. The troubleshooting consisted of plugging a cumputer into my car to download the error codes. This took all of 5 minutes and they charged me over $100. They did this with a smile I might add. By the way, I have taken my car to private mechanics all of which told me the same thing. They cannot troubleshoot VW’s because volkswagen encrypts there error codes. only VW knows what they mean, so you basically have to go back to VW to get certain repairs and get ripped off!!!!
Needless to say I have put this piece of junk up for sale before it causes me any more aggrevation.
Please, if you are considering buying a Volkswagen, don’t. Don’t be fooled by the myth of quality German engineering. It no longer exists, if in fact ever did.
and don’t ever buy a vehicle from Donaldson’s Volkswagen in Sayville, NY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will ripp you off with a smile!!!!!!!!!
Edited by paultakeda on 11/27/06 at 4:57 PM
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VWVictim Said,
November 24, 2006 @ 10:22 am
- It is indeed sad to see this happen over and over. Take some comfort in knowing that by making people aware of your miserable experiences with VW, you may keep some unsuspecting car buyer from making the mistake of buying a Volkswagen.
VWVictim Said,
November 24, 2006 @ 10:35 am
- It is indeed sad to see this happen over and over. Take some comfort in knowing that by making people aware of your miserable experiences with VW, you may keep some unsuspecting car buyer from making the mistake of buying a Volkswagen.
VWVictim Said,
November 24, 2006 @ 10:38 am
Myth of German Engineering – The myth of German engineering is just that, a myth. One has only to look at Volkswagen.
297 Said,
November 27, 2006 @ 5:09 am
Corrections. – First, I converted your text from all caps to mixed. That’s all I did, but remember, all caps is used for shouting, and having your entire text in uppercase makes it unreadable.
Second, regarding your issues:
1. The plastic shroud is indeed a pain in the ass. I removed mine long ago (though I plan to put in an aftermarket one made of aluminum soon enough). The $200 cost is the price of the part (no, I have no idea why it’s so expensive for a piece of plastic).
2. Your ignition coils were covered by a recall. These coils came from a faulty batch delived to Volkswagen by Bosch. Upon discovery, VW immediately issued a recall. Everything worked out for you, which is nice, so why you cite this as a problem is puzzling.
3. Deionization basically performs the same trick those ionizers they sell at Sharper Image claim to do, which is to charge or ionize particles to attract dust and odor, which precipitate into something that can be removed from the car. This works for odor in the air, not for odor in, say, carpet or if you have mildew on a surface. If your car still smells, you probably need to remove the glovebox and have a look behind it.
4. A cryptic response from a dealer means don’t go back to that dealer. Not knowing what caused the leak could mean the problem can repeat itself.
5. Diagnostic scans (plugging the computer in the car) are expensive, but VW is not the only culprit. At this point, all dealerships charge a diagnostic fee anywhere from $50-150. The error codes coming out of a VW have generic OBDII counterparts, although there are some VW-specific codes that can only be interpreted by a VAG scan tool. Thankfully, 3rd party tools are perfectly capable of interpreting such data and a shop can outfit itself for less than $300. In other words, your private mechanics have not entered the 21st century. Try going to Autozone and see if they can scan your car for you (or if your private mechanics have ANY OBD2 scan tool, see what code they can get out of it). You can search for what the code means on the internet. Or you can post it here and I or others can help you diagnose it. If you want to find someone in your area who’ll scan your car with a VAG tool in exchange for a beer, check the list at TDIclub.com.
YupOldBull Said,
November 27, 2006 @ 7:24 am
Whoa! (again) – Paul,
Please stop defending. They build crap. They design crap. And some poorly represent their product.
Lets talk about that.
I went through 2 VW dealerships and 2 VWOA reps. More crap.
Lets look through (just) 2 other websites devoted to this topic.
http://www.cars-that-suck.com/stories.html
http://www.myvwlemon.com/
There are thousands of customers affected by all of this. (and thousands of posts!) I read them……honest.
If you keep your head in the sand, you won’t see any of this.
I even recall one poor soul that tried to fight back.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5159108/detail.html
Want more? Regards.
297 Said,
November 28, 2006 @ 3:02 am
- Because when I say the plastic cover is a pain in the ass and costs way too much I’m defending VW’s pricing.
Because when I say don’t go back to a dealership that is cryptic and unhelpful I’m defending that dealership.
As for the other stuff, sure I defended. The recall resolved without issue. Should the person complain that the recall existed at all? Diagnostic scans are a ridiculous fee charged by all car dealerships, not just VW. Should the person therefore accuse VW of overcharging? If you are stating that recalls and scans should not be defended, then all car makes that do recalls and scans should not be defended. That just about wipes out all cars, doesn’t it?
Overstep the accusation, and I will defend.
297 Said,
November 30, 2006 @ 1:15 am
- We’re getting into the semantics of the word fan at this point. I’m not a fanatic, but I certainly like their philosophy when it comes to pushing technology. The DSG is the final nail in manual transmission’s coffin. The FSI engine is a marvelous way of obtaining performance but increasing efficiency in a small volume engine. VW pushed OBDII to the point where they needed new codes as they fine-tuned the engine management system. And yes, all this means gremlins. And most of these gremlins were worked out by the third model year, particularly the ones related to electronics and engine management.
Some gremlins did stick around, though. For instance, the side mirror defroster switch for New Beetls was combined with mirror adjustment. Turning on the switch meant turning the knob away from L or R. But here I thought turning it away from L and R meant turning off mirror adjustment. I burned out my side mirror defrosters inside of one month as they were always on. At least they fixed that in later models, but for me I was stuck with buying new mirror elements. Annoying? Yes. VW the most evil car company in the world? No. There were a few other things, like the coolant temp sensor, which I fixed myself (at this point I no longer liked the dealership — this is because I can separate my distaste for a dealership from the product I purchased, much like I find KFCs dingy and the service to brisk and unfriendly, but god I love that chicken). The coilpack issue? The dealership replaced mine even though my car wasn’t on the list (this was another dealership, 25 miles away, which I stuck with a little longer before I found a local mechanic I trusted). They replaced them, just in case. That’s pretty nice of them. They even replaced my fuel filter gratis one time.
Interior problems: I knew that when I bought the car and was expecting it, especially when I first sat inside and noticed the tactile paint surface on the door handles. Oh yeah, those are gonna wear out, I thought. Luckily, plastic bits are easy to replace by yourself, and most are pretty cheap (those handles are $7 a piece, the little hinge on my armrest was $2).
No, I never had a problem with my glovebox. I replaced my mats with VW’s Monster rubber mats because I never understood the point of carpet mats protecting a carpet floor (and you did the same and you agree that they are awesome, not to mention stylish — mine has the New Beetle logo on it, very nice). Yes, my first air of rear brake pads wore out, too — the second pair has yet to show much wear as VW changed out those pads a few years back. Yes, the plastic under engine covers are crap and mine are removed as well. That was mostly for sound than anything else, and eventually I’ll snag a Dieselgeek Panzer plate. So yeah, I’ve had a lot of niggly problems — perhaps my expectations aren’t as high, but then again, every car I’ve seen has had its own set of niggly problems. Not the same problems, but they’re there. I’ve never seen a completely pristine, never needed anything, never did anything wrong, car. Honda and Toyota more reliable? Sure. They don’t put in luxury-like interiors that can wear out. At least they’re not like a Ford or Dodge, where the interior is not only drab but also much more prone to breakage than a VW (I really liked the look of the Charger and Magnum, too… too bad about sitting in one).
You have your experience, I have mine, and they certainly affect our position on the matter. I haven’t had any major issues and most of the little ones I knew about before buying the car. You’ve had several major problems with your car and the little issues simply compound your frustration (if all your problems were on little things like worn mats, I seriously doubt you’d be this pissed). My liking my car has nothing to do with your hating yours. I have no problem with people citing their issues, but I expect they should have no problem if I correct or question some of their statements, or if I provide help to solve a problem (by providing such help I am implicitly acknowledging a fault in the product).
So am I fan or not? It really depends on how you’re saying the word to my face, doesn’t it?
YupOldBull Said,
November 30, 2006 @ 6:41 am
Fair Enough……. – You tell my wife that she and I could have gone on 3 really nice vacations in the past 6 years if it weren’t for VW gremlins.
Edited by YupOldBull on 11/30/06 at 6:43 PM
YupOldBull Said,
November 30, 2006 @ 7:50 am
Then – Paul,
There are tens of thousands of unhappy VW consumers. There are thousands (visitor included) on this website alone.
Compound poorly designed product, with poor quality parts, and mix in some lousy service. Not very good.
Some of the issues involve: premature rear brake wear, CELs, MILs, MAFs, oil burning, sludge, air bags, coolant migration, broken glove box hinges, monsoon radios, sunroofs, water leaks into cabin floors, plastic undercarriage splash pans, brake light pedal switches, catalytic converter extended warranty, hazard light recalls. Want 20 more items..go read my profile.
Here is what your profile states:
For the record, I am not a VW fan, per se. I am a fan of automobile technology. VW happens to excel in pushing the envelope, especially using Audi, Lamborghini, etc. to test out new engines, electronics, and so on that eventually make it to the consumer level.
I am, however, a Beetle fan, ever since I was given a 1969 VW on my 16th birthday and promptly drove it through three engine rebuilds in three years. I had a lot of fun in that car, and it convinced me to get a New Beetle, which I followed since it was the Concept 1 and patiently waited till the turbo model was two years into production (you know, work out the gremlins).
If your not a VW fan, you are certainly close to it. Those are only little gremlins with your car. (Bug) With my car (Jetta) those little gremlins have cost me over $12,000 in repairs.
If you cant see the problems with these carsI will maintain that you have your head in the sand.
I get mad when things cost me money. My $20,000 Jetta which I have put $12,000 into is now worth $3,000. (prox) No one wants it .and it doesnt run well! (Never has run well!) How would you feel. I have a ten year mad and this is year 6.
Here is what my profile states:
My VW has been just fine.
2000 Volkswagen Jetta GLS L4-1984cc 2.0L SOHC (AEG) 5 speed 4 door $20,500 new in September 1999
Here is the history to date. 134k (September 99 to November 06)
Over $12,000 in repairs. Terrible! (Repair bills almost equal the car payments)
Air conditioning leak (after 1 week)
Rear defroster has two strands that dont work (after 3 months)
Cloth Front Floor Mats ripped out (3 times)
Replaced cheap cloth mats with heavy duty VW rubber mats (no problem with the $120 rubber mats) Hope it wasnt we give you cheap ones that tear out .but we could sell you the good ones for $120.
Check engine light came on (4 times)
(2nd time engine light came on VW Dealership told me it would cost $100 to scope)
Rear brake pads wore out at 40k (front pads showed no wear?)
Rear rotors scored and replaced by premature pad failure. Poor brake proportioning
Gear shift knob loose. Still loose after first attempt. Second attempt fixed it.
2.0 litre engine burning oil (1 quart every 1,000 miles) Yellowish white goop inside valve cover and oil filler cap. (later went on to burn only 1 quart every 2,000 miles)
2.0 litre engine cylinder walls deglazed and new rings installed (didnt work)
Informed that 1 quart every 2k is normal. First VWOA rep. said the oil burning was normal. One year later, second VWOA rep. (different district) said these cars had defective rings. Which one do you believe?
VW Mass Air Flow sensor recall
Interior armrest soft rubbery coating (cosmetics) poor clean ability Cant clean the dirt smudges and the finger nail scrapes/gouges are impossible to remove.
Glove box right side hinge broke (3 times) Still broken.
Replaced Clutch (should /could go to 150k.replaced at 93k)
Seat belt recall from VW
Plastic undercarriage splash pan broke off (3 times) finally just removed.
Only one heated mirror works
Mirror glass are beginning to brown up on bottom edge. Cheap silvering?
Crayon smell and greasy black build-up on internal fender seams
Brake light pedal switch recall from VW
Numerous calls to the VW #800 line (No help)
Replaced Coolant flange on engine (told these are known to break)
Sunroof broke
Young VWOA rep. taught me how to read an oil dipstick.
Armrest release pull broke (cheap plastic hinge)
Warranty extension from VW on oxygen sensors
Replaced spark plug wires
Replaced battery
Drivers Seat squeaks. Seatbelt receiver rubs the side of the seat.
Mystery rear window (Comes down 6 inches on its own when it wants to)
Replaced engine vacuum hoses
Letter to Dealership, they get VWOA involved, both combined offer no help
Front of plastic cup holder falls off
Front windows crashed down inside of door (4 times)
2.0 litre engine (now) burning 1 quart every 2,000 miles (over 45 quarts in 93k)
2.0 litre engine completely replaced
Water pump replaced
Temperature gauge sensor replaced (silent VW recall item)
Received Mass Air Flow sensor warranty extension from VW
Car wouldnt pass State inspection (replaced 2 oxygen sensors $360)
Received window regulator litigation notice
Loud explosion (Like a 410 shotgun) in cabin while driving at 55mph on smooth 4 lane highway. Airbag went off? Or was it the seat spring letting loose?
Drivers seat spring shearing off (height adjuster)
When it is 32 degrees or colder the door lock makes no beep sound
Dash light failure (works Ok for 2 weeks and then Off for 2 weeks)
Intermittent trunk light. Some times it works. Sometime it doesnt.
Compensated by VW for oxygen sensors
Replace rear brake pads. 93k (second time)
Replace front pads. 93k (first time)
Every other night the clock stops (resets to 12:00) and the odometer resets to 0.0 (even with new battery)
Glove box light remains on when lights are turned on.
Turn signals intermitting remain solid on
4 way flashers occasionally remain solid on
Roof Antenna rotted off. Completely disintegrated by UV.
Plus the other expected normal repairs.
Planning to get rid of this car, because now that it is getting older we can expect everything to start breaking.
Hard on gas. (MPG)
Mid 20s is terrible for a small engine (2.0 litre 5 speed) and a small car. Should/could be in the low 30s.
Hard on brakes.
40k on rear brake pads is terrible! Our 99 Honda Prelude has 80k original OEM brake pads and will need them soon. Bad proportioning, rear wear out at 40k and fronts get replaced at 93k? Where else in the industry do you see these proportions? Does NHTSA know? Is it poor design or a braking defect?
Hard on rubber
(60k tires only go 45k) Original set went to 45k. Second set went to 93k. And now we have the third set on. 3 sets 93k. Our 99 Honda Prelude went 80k with original tires.
Over 30 trips to the dealership in 72 months.
There have been 74 stinking Technical Service Bulletins issued on this vehicle.
There have been only 5 stinking recalls and 3 warranty extensions.
Terrible.
In closing, maybe you and I should visit (here) and discuss each defect one by one. We can start with a little known problem.air bags.
Here are two threads to review: (one is a video)
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/local_story_038190628.html
http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001514.html
Edited by YupOldBull on 11/30/06 at 8:00 AM
YupOldBull Said,
December 1, 2006 @ 5:44 am
Let’s talk more…….address the air bags first – No fair skimming over this huge topic. I want to talk about one gremlim at a time. Your comments on air bags first.
Next 50 or so topics to follow.
Plenty of time here.
Come on.
297 Said,
December 1, 2006 @ 7:48 am
- Why should I tell your wife the obvious? I told you already, your experiences are not my experiences. Both are valid and people take them as they are. you’ve had major problems with your car, I have not. There’s no wrong or right there, and your use of gremlins is not how I would use it (I wouldn’t call some of the problems you’ve had “”gremlins”").
If you want to talk about one problem at a time, feel free to create a new thread directly addressing that problem. And don’t introduce other problems into that thread. We can then keep it clean and easy to read, plus as a separate thread it will be easy to find for users searching the forum for information. I’ll tell you now though that many of these won’t be very long as many of them I’ll simply agree is a problem that has not been addressed.
MARTI246 Said,
December 1, 2006 @ 9:59 am
Thanks – First, It was all caps because I was shouting!!!
Second; Regarding my issues. I guess I did not make the point I wanted to. It was probably because I was so pissed off and frustrated with DONALDSON VOLKSWAGEN of Sayville, NY and there terrible service.
1) The cost of the plastic shroud was not my complaint. My problem with DONALDSON’S is that they should have replaced the shroud for free since it was there fault that it fell off. They changed the oil 2 days before it fell off. So they either, did not replace and secure it properly or the part was defective. Either way, DONALDSON’s should have replaced it because of their negligence or it should have been covered under warranty. (Car parts should not fall off a vehicle) To make the problem even worse, when I contacted DONALDSON Volkswagen of Sayville,NY to inform them of the problem, I was cut off in mid explaination and told by the service manager that it was my fault. He didn’t look at the car and he didn’t ask any question, but he knew for sure that it was my fault and he wasn’t going to pay for it. REAL QUALITY SERVICE!!!!!!!!
2) Ignition coil problem. Okay, I’ll give you that one. It was covered by a recall. But, it shows VW’s poor quality. All car manufaturers have problems and recall’s but, Volkswagen has more than the average.
3)Thanks for your explaination on De-ionization. Again, another example of poor service by DONALDSON’S VOLKSWAGEN of Sayville, NY. The repair was covered under the warranty but unfortunatley, DONALDSON Volkswagen of Sayville, NY refused to go the extra step. They corrected the problem but refused to fix the damage. The water that entered the vehicle eventually caused mildew to form on the carpeting and padding causing a digusting odor in the veicle. De-ionization did nothing for me but they made it sound like they did me such a huge favor by getting special permission from upper management to De-ionize my vehicle. THANKS FOR NOTHING DONALDSON’S VOLKSWAGEN of Sayville,NY!!!!!!!!!!
4) NO SH*T PAUL!!! The last thing I want is to go back to DONALDSON VOLKSWAGEN of Sayville,NY for anything!!! They are nothing but a bunch of thieves. Like every other car dealership. This was the first new car I ever bought. I bought with the hopes that it would be years before I would have to worry about any major repairs or malfunctions. WRONG!!!!!!!! There should not be any major oil leaks in a new vehicle!!!!! That’s why the vehicle is up for sale.
5) So you justify charging over $100 for 5 minutes work, huh Paul???
Anyway, anyone reading this message who is considering buying a Volkswagen, DON’T!!!!!!!!!! You will live to regret it. And for those people who work for Volkswagen, especially DONALDSONS VOLKSWAGEN of Sayville, NY, there’s not much I can do, except never buy another VW, my kids will never buy one, my friends will never buy one and hopefully I will convince someone else thru this posting never to buy one. So GFY VW!!!!!!!!!!!!
One final question for you Paul. Which Volkswagen dealership do you work for or do you just have so much free time on your hands that you surf the net looking for VW websites to support their poor product??????
Edited by MARTI246 on 12/01/06 at 10:02 PM
Edited by MARTI246 on 12/01/06 at 10:03 PM
Edited by MARTI246 on 12/01/06 at 10:03 PM
297 Said,
December 4, 2006 @ 5:21 am
- First: shouting/uppercasing the entire post typically means it won’t get read. You’re better picking key words and phrases, which you did just fine using bold and red.
Second:
1) Yeah, so stop going to that dealership.
2) Fine.
3) I think you’ve explained pretty well that this dealership has given you crappy service. Now how about we just figure out what’s going on with the smell and either take it to another dealership, a trusted mechanic, or open it up yourself (you’re out of warranty, right?) — or would you like to complain about it some more first?
4) Good. Don’t go back. They’re not worth your time and money.
5) I don’t charge anyone. I bought my own third party scan tool to avoid the VW dealership’s diagnostic fee. And yes, all dealerships, including others such as Honda, Toyota, BMW, Volvo, you name it — they all charge you an excessive amount of money for a 5 minute scan.
Your final question) You’re new, so I’ll give you a tip: never insult a forum moderator.
Cheers.
Edited by paultakeda on 12/04/06 at 5:34 PM